Rolling Road 15 - The results

Discussion in 'Car & Motorsport Events' started by Scooby Towers, Oct 23, 2010.

  1. TunnelMeister

    TunnelMeister Lifetime & Founder Member

  2. TunnelMeister

    TunnelMeister Lifetime & Founder Member

  3. andyscoobym3csl

    andyscoobym3csl New Member

    imo if your car is going to go on a dyno, then i would go there with an open mind. and always go off the wheel figure and not the flywheel figure as these are calculated on most dynos, which i think again is a big con, if you watch the cpr orange evo on youtube on the dyno the calculate a 24% loss through transmission, so basically they are saying a 400hp car will loose 100hp through trasmission and an 800hp car with the same transmission will loose 200hp. nahh dont think so. imo i would just use a dyno as a guide. good fun tho watchin your car on the dyno
     
  4. scooby251

    scooby251 Well-Known Member

    So what you are saying is try and use the same rolling road and just use the figures to see if you last modification was a success but don't always believe the exact figures the rollers produce are the power you have on the road?

    The problem I have is that the rolling road I use, I have had varying figures with no modification change and been 40bhp difference. One done in October and one the following March.
     
  5. TunnelMeister

    TunnelMeister Lifetime & Founder Member

    Unfortunately Paul that's the reality, it can and will happen. Have a read of the Andy Forrest link. You will never really create the conditions you have on the road.

    To get nearer the mark would probably take best part of a dedicated day on the rollers. They need to be set up especially for your car and all the different perameters monitored. Climatic conditions can make a big difference from one session to the next.

    Remember, Rolling Road 'days' are just a general guideline and a bit of fun, not to be taken too seriously. :wink:
     
  6. Thats not true Steve.

    A rolling road that has been set up right should produce figures that are close to the figures the car is putting out on the road, a rolling road will never be able to recreate the atmospheric conditions exactly but they shouldn't be far off. Saying a RR day is just a bit of fun and shouldn't be taken seriously, in my eyes would be a complete waste of time if your not getting figures that are correct.

    Alot of the problems nowadays are down to the operator error and also alot of garages will have some tiny little fan pushing out a naff amount of air that really isn't good enough. We always like to once a month try to put on a completely standard car to see what figures it produces compared to manufacturers figures and to give you a couple of examples:

    We ran a 2008 renault clio197 and the figures came out at 193.4 and 194.2, MRF: 194.

    and a 2007 Mazda MPS 3 and the figures came out at 256.6 and 257.9, MRF: 260

    Temperature and air flow will have alot to do with it so if it is a really hot day the figures can be low if there isnt enough cool air flowing.

    Alot of the time when a car doesn't produce the figures the owner expected it is down to problems with the car itself and not the rollers so it is always worth while to get a comparison. I can go into all the technical jargon but for now I will leave you with a quote from Andy Forrest himself:

    Up until I ran on a Dastek dyno I avoided them ALL like the plague.

    Up until then I had never found one that would replicate the boost profile i achieved on the road, not to mention the ability to maintain charge temperature control. Normally attending a dyno day would mean tweeking the wastegate duty and maybe pulling a bit timing but at Dastek i was able to run my race map and even checked out the N20 on a few runs

    My Subaru is lighter and more powerful than most yet it just sat on the rollers like it was a std one, no pull down straps, just location straps charge temps were within 2 degrees of high speed road running and the boost profile was bang on.

    The two warm up runs I done showed different paw figures however when the rundown losses were added the paf was within 1bhp, the paw was lower on run 1 due to increased trans losses on the colder oil.

    I'd recommend anyone considering a dyno to check out the Dastek, I can't think of any way to improve it.....thats usually a good sign

    Andy
     
  7. markscooby

    markscooby Active Member

    i will vouch for gavs rolling rd i have had a car on it and the numbers was bang on right and a few of my mates had theres on to eg a 290 sumething a toyota starlet turbo what made every body think twice about racing one of them :lol:
     
  8. TunnelMeister

    TunnelMeister Lifetime & Founder Member

    Hi Gav, you've got the wrong end of the stick.

    I'm saying Rolling Road 'DAYS', ie were a variety of 20 odd cars are pushed through the rollers in a limited time, ie the car/rollers not set up specifically for the test.

    It's very difficult to judge the accuracy when you don't even know what the boost level was. Remember, this started following a specific RR Day.

    Together with the problems you mention, the results will be within a range, but not exact for each car.

    If I'm wrong, I stand corrected. :wink:
     
  9. scooby251

    scooby251 Well-Known Member

    I went to speed factory today to have a comparison on their rolling road.

    Basically the bhp figure I was give was with in 8bhp if prosports figure.

    As I was expecting to be running over 500bhp the speed factory looked in to why it wasn't.

    Simple answer is that I was only producing 1.4 bar of boost on the roller and I produce 1.7bar on the road.

    The only way for me to see these figures on the rollers would be to set the car up on the rollers to produce the 1.7 bar on the rollers do my run and then turn it back down so that I don't over boost on the road :wink:

    Gav said if I could produce the boost it would over 500bhp :D
    So now I know there is nowt wrong with my car :D but I still don't have the 500bhp graph to put in my frame :cry:
     
  10. andyscoobym3csl

    andyscoobym3csl New Member

    not fogetting tyre pressures and different gears. ie a car will produce different hp in different gears, also i was running mine on a dyno dynamics rr and the operator couldnt hit the magic 600 mark so he put 50psi in the tyres and it made another 8hp. how can this be accurate !!!
     
  11. TunnelMeister

    TunnelMeister Lifetime & Founder Member

    Paul, that is exactly why I asked question earlier about the boost figures.

    Think this thread has been thrashed to death now. :wink:
     
  12. scooby251

    scooby251 Well-Known Member

    I just wanted to know why I didn't make the figures. Didn't get told at prosport. I know now. Job done :wink:

    End of :wink:
     
  13. TunnelMeister

    TunnelMeister Lifetime & Founder Member

    Nah Paul, never done, even BIGGER turbo (you'll need a special bonnet making) and even more stretching of the wallet. :lol:

    It never ends. :roll:

    I'm now looking for an RB320 gearbox and a few minor engine upgrades, THEN we can turn the wick up! :wink: :D

    Though I'm not considering the territory your in. :!:
     
  14. Shmerman

    Shmerman Active Member

    Why specifically a RB320 gearbox Steve?
     
  15. TunnelMeister

    TunnelMeister Lifetime & Founder Member

    Gear ratio's and dccd bud.
     
  16. Shmerman

    Shmerman Active Member

    Why not a UK sti hawkeye?

    They have dccd and a longer (than blob) 6 speed ratio.
     
  17. Neil

    Neil Active Member

    Steve, you need a WR1 box and diff.

    Pretty sure the RB 320, along with the uk hawkeye (same gearbox), use different drivehafts.
     
  18. TunnelMeister

    TunnelMeister Lifetime & Founder Member

    Thanks Neil. I understand the gear ratio's for WR1 and RB320 are different. WR1 has a step up from 4th to 5th and even further from 5th to 6th. Apparently the RB320 is a more equal progression right through to 6th?

    I was in fact looking for a WR1 box to start with, thanks for the advice.

    You wouldn't have one would you? :lol:
     
  19. KK3960

    KK3960 Active Member

    Lets not be unrealistic about these turbo's, for all you would be tuners, although Steve has opted for a mild tune, as a rule of thumb a tuned EJ20 2.0 Sti (rollers set up) with full decat and 321t should be circa minimum 400HP all day long at an average 1.5bar boost. Andrew has mapped many including my last one (Marcs), these turbo's will easily see 420-440 HP plus with correct set up.

    Andrew what will the 321T + Plus deliver??
     
  20. Toffee

    Toffee New Member

    ^^^^^ I am sure that Mark at Lateral reckons the 321 turbos are good for > H=400, T=450 & V=500hp. I am sure that this is the way they are listed in the TI mag.

    However if a person does not want to push there engine to the max of a turbo and other supporting mods, I suppose thats fair enough?

    My standard engine is running 420bhp, a lot of people believe that this is getting to the top end of what the standard internals can take on my model engine? yet Richard Bulmer informed me that his 2002 Spec C standard internals was set up to 500bhp years ago and it is still running today with lots of abuse and yet has not failed.

    I have come to believe that it is not the numbers that make an engine fail, it is the set up.

    Lee.
     

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