dont be scared to use a buffer, you wont buff through!!!

hey guy's

heres a quick demo vid of how not to polish,

when we get customers in and they see me using the machine, they all say how scary it is and how they wouldn't dare use one, couple to the fact that theres so much bs on forums saying people should start with da polishers etc, i thought why not show a little vid, of how not to do it,

the setup:

one used subaru impreza door, the japs are know for having quite thin clear/paint, the polisher is a rotary polisher, it goes from 900 rpm to 3000 rpm, now the max i use when polishing will be 1300 rpm so less than half its full power, the pad is a 3m green fast cut pad, the hardest cutting pad 3m do, coupled with 3m fast cut again 3m's harshest compound, there is no sponge backing pad either.

i start at 900 rpm, then go up to 3000 rpm, and then back down, i put that much presure down i dent the panel lol

finally finished with a yellow pad and compound for pics after

heres the vid


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DevMc1-9j38

here are the pics,


IMG_1369 by cuprajake1, on Flickr


IMG_1367 by cuprajake1, on Flickr

tried my best to show you the finish.

now im not saying go out and 3000rpm your car, but dont be scared to use the machine, on a low setting you'll be fine. there are loads of videos showing how to use the rotary polisher.

infact for £150 i could probably set you up with a life time supply of polish,wax pads and polisher to do your car with


thanks for looking..


jake

 

How did you know how thick the paint was?

And i will take you up on that offer of a lifetime of polish for £150 Swissvax is my current favourite.

Michael

 

im like a zen master of paint, i can look at it and i think yep, thats got paint on it lol

in all seriousness, i use that as my test door, out of pic is a test sample of filler lol...its just a simple example to show people not to be scared when using a polisher,

used swissvax on my last car, for the money it was im glad i didnt buy it, although it smelt so good i would eat it,

for me i cant see spending over the price of a tub of ag hd wax for most road going cars.

 

The rotary polisher has previously suffered from a bad name - from people who have used it and made mistakes but more so from people who have never picked one up but are happy to pass on internet myth and rumour! Given the power of rotary tools and the low thickness of automotive paints (typically 100-130um) you need to take accurate paint thickness measurements, this cannot be stressed enough. The role of the paint thickness gauge (PTG) is essential in determining thin spots where more care must be taken and also to assess paint removal when reducing or removing scratches in the paint.



Zen is not going to help you!

Michael

 

see this is were i differ, a paint gauge is only going to help you if it can diffencit between basecoat and clear coat, only then can you know a true reading, you could have five coats of base and one coat clear or one coat base and five coats clear, buffing both would result in different outcomes should you burn through the first coat,

if were talking factory never painted paint then the likelyhood of going through is slim, polishing with a machine is only going to remove a few micron, 10 at best if its a deep surface scratch,

maybe its just the way i have been brought up around paint from the other side of things, doing the application,

but what i can say in terms of clear coat thickness is more newer vehicles tend to have less paint on them, when we prep cars for paint, we use 1000 to remove any orange peel and give good key, this could be buffed up at a push and does remove alot more in terms of microns then any machine polishing will.

this is in no mean a knock at any professional who does it, just simply to dispell the myth that the minute a novice puts a machine on a car, their going to destroy it.

 

And when they have gone through the thin bits ie. The edges of the wings or lips You'll be able to put it right...

I might start selling Yellow Sponges for Washing....

Michael

 

In the words of Harry Hill there is only one way to settle this :lol: :lol: :lol:

Interesting points from both :wink:

 

:shock: :lol: :lol:

 

Interesting reading mate, the youtube link isnt working for me though, could someone post up the link please.

Lee.

 

should work now

 

And when they have gone through the thin bits ie. The edges of the wings or lips You'll be able to put it right...

I might start selling Yellow Sponges for Washing....

Michael[/quote ] 1 ... 2 yellow sponges

 

Nothing wrong with a sponge in the right hands . :wink:
If you get the pre wash stage right by using a foam lance like the ones Michael sells there should be no grit left on the car to cause swirls .
Having said that I still prefer to use a mitt .

 

Thanks dude 8)

 

I've had similar discussions with many detailers out there in the past over paint thickness.

When I was in Rochdale I worked closely with Ian at Finer Details, who is outstanding at his job and used to impress me continually with his results. (Which in itself is an achievement, it takes a LOT to impress me)

Once I explained the paint application process to him, he agreed about the uselessness of normal paint thickness gauges.

There are, I'm led to believe, ones that can measure the depth of clear coat only, but very expensive...

Having said that, I wouldn't recommend a rotary polisher to just anybody though.

You have to have a feel for using them IMHO, and could quite easily burn through the paintwork.
Your average Joe bloggs wouldn't be able to recognise OEM paint from a refinish finish.

You would be better off with a dual action, random orbital type machine. Much safer for average Joe...


All IMHO of course. :lol:

 

see as painters we both have the same opinion, those paint depth gauges do exist, but as you say are sill expensive and can still be hit or miss app.

i think with a bit of care and thought most sane people could get to grips with a rotary, even if its a very soft sponge pad and a glaze lol.

there will always be a place in the car world for professional machine polishers, as this is just one aspect of a full car valet, theres plastics, rubbers, glass, wheels and interior to be addressed too.

 

I know the paint on my car is thin, something like 3 layers compared to 6 (all that weight saving lol) about 60-80 microns I think??

Tony

 

Tony, most cars have either 3 or 4 layers.

1. Etch type primer
2. Filler surface primer
3. Colour coat (on early solid coloured cars)
4. Clear coat

What you don't know is how many coats of each it has, so to say it has 60-80 microns is a bit of a random guess...

 

Unless you have had it tested with a meter then its not aguess is it

 

i think what neil is trying to point out is,


the total of the paint say 100, could be made up of totally different number, so 50 base 50 clear, or 70 base 30 clear or 30 base 70 clear, this would result in totally different results ay you were to remove 30 microns from the finish, it may be the difference between having lacquer on the car or not haha

 

Can one of you advise the differences between the one used in the link and the "dual action, random orbital type machine" which has been recommended by Neil, I have just done an ebay search and it brings up sanding machines, cheapest electrical one was a Sealey @ £80. Why would the one recommended be safer/better?

Lee.